The official monks are overpowered thread.

[Death knight dunn]

I swear how can a ranger who is not a mesmer stop a monk. I just do not delever enough damage to them as they regen twice as fast as i delever the damage. Meaning they can kill me easily over time because i cant even make their HP budge.

Is this fair?

[ApOcAlYpSe]

Oh great another overpowered thread....First off take a look at what you are bringing to the table. If all you have is dmg skills you cant win(well maybe if the monks sucked) You have to bring something like distracting shot. Think about your character first before coming the forums to say that one class is overpowered.

I can see the nerf stick so close to this game right now with all the people whining about how they cant beat a certain class.

[Xymbiant]

There is more than just pure damage. As Apocalypse said, look into other skills to use on them.

[Death knight dunn]

ok distracting shot what does that do to a monk that already has a 3+ regen on them. absolutly nothing. It only stops skills from being cast. With mend on a monk what the hell is the use of playing a ranger since my slow attack speed and damage can not make up for it.

abuse debilitating shot and stop crying please

[Death knight dunn]

i think your a noob

[kelith]

what is your secondary?

[Death knight dunn]

Im a ranger/monk my self and i just cant delever enough damage to warriors or monks with mend.

[Nash]

Ever heard of counters and teamwork?

Originally Posted by Death knight dunn

i think your a noob

you couldnt be more wrong

[Xellos]

I think he's being overexaggerating, but I do believe that monks are a bit too important. Above all, monks are accepted as a integral part of a team no matter what the conditions nearly, whereas other classes such as necromancer, or in PVE, a mesmer, is not as important. It can be argued that certain builds have certain situations, but it seems to me that monks seem to be loved where ever they go, which sort of emphasizes the monk factor. It's not really a balance thing I guess, it's just how the game is.

In PVP, monk must die first or at least high in the priority list, yet also in PVE, monk is essentially what makes or break you for any casual group and sometimes elite groups. There is almost no circumstance where a monk is undermined, where most classes have a range of plenty to some circumstances where they suck.

Not to mention how currently I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't been in touch with PVP that much since retail), punching through monk defenses is still the key factor in PVP. Mesmers gain their infamy from being able to take down monks and locking them down, not being able to cancel a meteor shower even though that could be dangerous. Everything seems to revolve around monks. Counters, strategies, everything focuses on monks at the moment.

Even tanks are no longer tanks. When was the last time in PVP you heard of a warrior that's designed to take damage? The game is designed so that currently, warriors just do as much damage or have some built-in disruption, and let their natural AL do the job. No one's going to carry Gladiator's Defense.

My point is, monks may not be overpowered in a sense that their unstoppable, it's that their too important, and too focused on. Again, I might just be on crack, so this could be completely wrong. But in PVE/PVP and even against mobs, nothing comes first other then taking out the source of healing/protects. Too much emphasize on countering it, probably because the benefits are so great.

[Jana]

Alright first post.

Allow me just a quick moment to mention:

In PvP:

EVERY profession has a "nemesis". For a monk... it's a mesmir. No one profession has an I win button without someone else who can take them out. In fact, I have seen many Mesmir SECONDARIES take out monks with no problems.


In PvE:

The reason monks are needed and SEEM overpowered is that people are generally much more inclined to become stupid and act accordingly. They run ahead just charging everything that moves, since they expect the monk to be there to save their arses. I have seen groups without a monk do fine with a little extra care. I have seen a group of Necros and Elementalists smoke things faster than I could believe where you're odds of dying decrease rapidly if nothing is left standing to do any damage.


All in all, monks are NOT easy to play. This is because of the people. But they are fun and it;s good that a healer type is needed in a game


Jana

[Studio Ghibli]

What Jana said.

When I party up with a monk, I get lazy and stupid.

[Nash]

Originally Posted by Xellos

I think he's being overexaggerating, but I do believe that monks are a bit too important. Above all, monks are accepted as a integral part of a team no matter what the conditions nearly, whereas other classes such as necromancer, or in PVE, a mesmer, is not as important. It can be argued that certain builds have certain situations, but it seems to me that monks seem to be loved where ever they go, which sort of emphasizes the monk factor. It's not really a balance thing I guess, it's just how the game is.

Monks are important, yes. But so are damage dealers. Only difference is that there are multiple classes to do damage but only one to heal/protect. Monks aren't overpowered. If anything it's the lack of options when it comes to keeping your team alive.

Originally Posted by Xellos

In PVP, monk must die first or at least high in the priority list, yet also in PVE, monk is essentially what makes or break you for any casual group and sometimes elite groups. There is almost no circumstance where a monk is undermined, where most classes have a range of plenty to some circumstances where they suck.

If there was only one damage dealing class, it would never be considered sucky, it would be vital to any team in any situation.

Originally Posted by Xellos

Not to mention how currently I believe (correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't been in touch with PVP that much since retail), punching through monk defenses is still the key factor in PVP. Mesmers gain their infamy from being able to take down monks and locking them down, not being able to cancel a meteor shower even though that could be dangerous. Everything seems to revolve around monks. Counters, strategies, everything focuses on monks at the moment.

Of course, because you'd be pretty dumb to attack a target that's getting healed faster than you an do damage. An issue with Monks? No, a consequence of having worthwhile healing in the game.

Originally Posted by Xellos

Even tanks are no longer tanks. When was the last time in PVP you heard of a warrior that's designed to take damage? The game is designed so that currently, warriors just do as much damage or have some built-in disruption, and let their natural AL do the job. No one's going to carry Gladiator's Defense.

Tanks stopped being tanks when people got smart enough to not attack a character built just to shrug off your damage. It's not an issue with the game, it's just a result of people being smarter than AI.

Originally Posted by Xellos

My point is, monks may not be overpowered in a sense that their unstoppable, it's that their too important, and too focused on. Again, I might just be on crack, so this could be completely wrong. But in PVE/PVP and even against mobs, nothing comes first other then taking out the source of healing/protects. Too much emphasize on countering it, probably because the benefits are so great.

They're not too important. If GW had 2 or more healer/protector classes there would be a lot less whining about it, it's just that there's one class for it. Stop looking at classes, and start looking at roles. Damage dealers are important, healers/protectors are important, shutdown is important. A balanced team is still the best.

That everyone goes for the healers is as stated a consequence of having worthwhile healing. If you could just easily outdamage healing you'd see other classes going down first, but then why would you want to use Monks?
They're gonna be essential to a team, and first to be targeted, or useless.

[FrodoFraggins]

Work with your team to bring down monks. PvP is balanced, you just got bested.

[Keure]

Nash definitely has it right.

As for Death Knight dunn...if this is a serious complaint you definitely need to rethink your strategy. Direct damage is not your only tool against monks.

[Typhoon]

Interrupt rare ever works on monks. Most monks stick to fast cast spells like Orsiron of healing, which you can't interrupt unless you get a lucky shot off.

I think concussive shot should be changed to an elite skill, which gives a guaranteed daze effect. What point is having a daze effect to help interrupts, when you need to score an interrupt in order for it to work? It makes no sense, especialy for a 25 mana shot.

[Eet GnomeSmasher]

I love how every lamebrain always rush to start a thread about Monks being overpowered. Then people tell them how to beat a monk and get told that they're noobs. Well guess who's a noob if you don't know how to beat a monk?

[Care Less]

you guys dont see how GW is built right?

GW is built as a 1 player game when it comes to pvp
your GROUP secures you the win

try making a group with only monks and go against a well "balanced" (a good mix of profs) and see how well you do , sure if the other teams sucks you'll win but if they got the slightlest idea of what they are doing they will win

[Xellos]

Originally Posted by Nash

Monks are important, yes. But so are damage dealers. Only difference is that there are multiple classes to do damage but only one to heal/protect. Monks aren't overpowered. If anything it's the lack of options when it comes to keeping your team alive.

Where in my quote did you get the idea that monks were overpowered? You basically agreed with me, though I did not stress the point of monk hogging the defense role.

Originally Posted by Nash

If there was only one damage dealing class, it would never be considered sucky, it would be vital to any team in any situation.

I like this one

Originally Posted by Nash

Of course, because you'd be pretty dumb to attack a target that's getting healed faster than you an do damage. An issue with Monks? No, a consequence of having worthwhile healing in the game.

Or a consequence of having enchantment abuse :P

Originally Posted by Nash

Tanks stopped being tanks when people got smart enough to not attack a character built just to shrug off your damage. It's not an issue with the game, it's just a result of people being smarter than AI.

Well duh, but the point is that Anet probably didn't intend for the game to consist of "ok guys, lockdown one monk, and kill the other" and have the whole match consist of priority targets. The whole tank concept has been supported by numerous skills in the game now rendered useless because of the evolving gameplay. I was simply suggesting that they should somehow render tanking more umm, useful? Practical? After all, if you don't "fix" this part, the monk survival and the monk focus becomes even higher, which also factors into the monks focus. Mesmers are popular for a reason, and it is not to stop elementalists.

Originally Posted by Nash

They're not too important. If GW had 2 or more healer/protector classes there would be a lot less whining about it, it's just that there's one class for it. Stop looking at classes, and start looking at roles. Damage dealers are important, healers/protectors are important, shutdown is important. A balanced team is still the best.

Or perhaps a way to make secondary healers worthwhile? Remember the thing about necros? How people in here started bashing at their uselessness in PVP? Well monks are opposite.

Originally Posted by Nash

That everyone goes for the healers is as stated a consequence of having worthwhile healing. If you could just easily outdamage healing you'd see other classes going down first, but then why would you want to use Monks?
They're gonna be essential to a team, and first to be targeted, or useless.

The point is not that they outheal, it's that their too focused on, this creates a sort of imbalance on focus and variety. Directly, it doesn't hurt balance at all, but it does hurt the fun factor of the game. A balanced team is definately the best team, but as of right now, you could be twice as good as another team skill wise, and still lose if you don't have monks. KOR wouldn't have a chance against a second page guild in BWE without monks. No other class works this way. They need to distribute their importance around to the secondaries, or at least other professions.

And last of all, I'm not going to argue if their overpowered or not, but I'd like to ask if people here think monks would all of a sudden be rendered useless if their skills took a hit by the nerf bat. Truely, would Shield of Deflection look ugly going from 5 second recharge to 10 seconds? Or if Word of Healing heals like 10-20 less? Just because their beatable, doesn't mean it's balanced. You balance in fun, and that includes time and importance. Are they dragging the game on? Are they stressed upon? You already admitted their the only class that can go on the defensive well, but what about time? The importance of monks affect the overall match time, or fight time in any battle. Just look at whiners in PVE, they go "omfg, been hitting this thing for like, 10 hours".

Monks are not overpowered, but their certainly too damn important for obvious reasons. The question is, is Anet going to do anything about it?

EDIT: About the only thing *I* personally suggest, is to take the emphasize off Divine Favour a bit, which *might* allow secondaries to compete. And second, enchantment removal buffs? And well, maybe enchantment nerfs. Otherwise, *I* don't think there's much that can't be done. The game at this point currently promotes a balanced team, but definately not variety at least in terms of defense. Personally, I doubt monks in terms of their skills and numbers need alot of change, but I'm just saying, it should be considered